“People Linked to Organized Crime Were Part of AMLO’s Administration”: “El Chapo’s” Lawyer

 “Sol Prendido” for Borderland Beat 

Thank you. Now, Counselor—I greeted you before the interview started—Attorney Gerardo Rincón, lawyer for Joaquín “El Chapo” Guzmán Loera, is with us. Counselor, thank you. Good morning. How are you? 

Azucena, good morning. Forgive me… that I’m currently having to communicate with you from this hotel. It’s a pleasure to greet you again. At your service. 

Don’t worry, Counselor. Tell me about the reports that El Chapo Guzmán had sent letters to President Claudia Sheinbaum—which I understand is false—and now the news that he will send information regarding individuals potentially linked to organized crime. Counselor, please tell me first about the story of the letters—whether true or false—and then about this matter of the information he intends to send to U.S. authorities. 

Look, it is clear: all the letters supposedly presented in the United States and to the President are completely fake. To get a document out of the prison where Mr. Guzmán is held, it has to go through high-security protocols and subsequently be approved by the FBI—just as my own powers of attorney and documents were authorized. 

That process takes about 30 to 40 days, provided the FBI approves them. Now, regarding the letters that were presented: for starters, Mr. Guzmán doesn’t speak English, and his written Spanish isn’t very strong. 

The signatures don’t match at all; I know his signatures perfectly. I have the documents, and the authorities have them too. However, I am about to send something out today—I’m not going to wait any longer because my family received threats yesterday over this issue. 

And this government—well, forgive me, not everyone, but some people play very, very dirty, in a truly terrible way. I’m not going to waste any more time or risk my life further. I am simply going to do what is right. 

I don’t defend crimes; I defend rights. And regarding the due process Mr. Guzmán received in Mexico—everything, absolutely everything about it was wrong. To put it briefly—so as not to take up too much time—I filed for *amparo* relief because the president refused to accept certain documents from me; she sent her staff out even though I had an appointment and everything was set up. 

They said, “No, that won’t do.” Okay, fine. But why not accept them based on Article 8 [the constitutional right to petition]? No, they wouldn’t do that either. Okay, fine. So, I went to the district court. They declared themselves incompetent to hear the case. 

How can you declare yourself incompetent? I went to another federal judge, and now it’s actually in dispute. Why? Because the FGR FGR [Attorney General’s Office] refuses to demonstrate to me that due process is being followed. 

I’m not saying whether he’s innocent or guilty; as I mentioned, I don’t defend the crimes, I defend human rights. Regarding his current place of detention: the man is being tortured—meaning he is in a place where he cannot see the sun or walk in fresh air. 

He is suffering from severe depression and has other medical conditions—nothing critical, but they are affecting him; he is being tortured. And when justice is administered—fine, give him life imprisonment or whatever sentence is appropriate—it must be without torture, because if torture exists, then there is no justice.

That’s true. 

And I do this for him and for anyone else. I have spent years pursuing justice everywhere through my international alliance of lawyers. 

Now, Counselor, these documents you are filing—do they appeal based on due process? Are they trying to get Joaquín Guzmán Loera—”El Chapo” Guzmán—brought back to Mexico or transferred to a different prison? What is the objective? 

Simply that he be granted the same rights as others. I’m not asking for them to give him a fancy bedroom or a suite. Look, he is being held in a dungeon without seeing the sun or breathing fresh air.

He undergoes a “session” once a month—meaning he’s subjected to temperature fluctuations caused by a machine that generates heat, alternating with the standard cold, and that is… well, it’s torture. 

Now, I’m going to say something, and I say it with great respect. I’m not accusing someone in the government—forgive me, not the whole government—but regarding the list I am submitting—I’ll be sending it electronically, and I’ll be in Washington next week—I will be handing over that official document as well. 

Personally, there are 32 people; we know there are 10 others being sought—actually, the U.S. count is down to four, because there were originally 35, but two have already been killed. Two remain, and the status of one is unknown, but the total was 35. So, I’m not mentioning those three. I am mentioning 32 people *in addition* to those.

32 people beyond those identified by the Department of Justice in New York in connection with the Sinaloa Cartel?

That’s right. Well, connected to corruption and the cartels. Let me tell you this: I’m not defending Mr. Guzmán Loaera regarding whether or not he was a criminal or a murderer—whatever the case may be—and if anyone has been harmed, I offer my condolences. 

But what I do want to tell you, Azucena, is that this man helped many families and many people—more than the government did. They are painting him as the monster, as the one who did everything wrong. Why don’t they mention who was behind all of this? 

The 32 people whose names you are going to reveal to the U.S. government? 

I am going to send information with evidence—just as I previously sent to President Claudia—showing how their investigative agents and prosecutors engage in corruption, murder, and planting drugs. 

I have videos and information; the Nuevo León prosecutor has it, that good for nothing who didn’t do anything—quite the opposite; the persecution and threats actually intensified. The President is also aware of this—there are videos, USB drives, and so many innocent people in prison because charges were fabricated against them. 

And I’m not just talking about the Guzmán case; this is happening all over Mexico due to certain corrupt officials—not all of them, I want to be very clear about that: not all of them. 

Look, Counselor, let me ask you this: regarding this package of information—did you try to hand it over to the Mexican government, but they refused to accept it? 

No, what I asked the Mexican government for was the FGR [Attorney General’s Office] file to review the due process involved, because I already had evidence showing that everything they had done—or fabricated or orchestrated—was improper. 

At the same time, I brought a formal document for the President—along with supporting evidence—pointing out the wrongdoing, but they wouldn’t even accept it; she didn’t receive it personally because she sent someone else, claiming she was too busy. Then I was told, “Well, if you’re dissatisfied with the FGR’s handling of the matter, you should take it up with the competent authority.” But which one if there’s nothing left to contest there; there’s no one left to argue the case against. 

So, the next step is the United States—is that where you’re sending these documents? 

Yes, look, I’m preparing these documents to send to the United States and to the Human Rights office in Geneva. They need to be fully informed about the situation. If only people could see—and I think many already know—that there are massive, grave abuses and violations being committed against so many families. 

In Mr. Guzmán’s case, I have the evidence needed to prove what happened and to show where the responsibility lies, because often the blame is placed solely on the drug cartels—”it was the cartel, it was the cartel.” But why don’t they admit that they have people from other countries involved? 

Why don’t they admit that it’s their own police officers committing these acts? Why don’t they admit that the perpetrators are government employees—some from Andrés Manuel’s administration, others from the previous one, and so on? And regarding the current situation—and I want to be very clear that this doesn’t apply to everyone. 

Why present these names and the evidence you say are so significant only now, Counselor? Why wait until today? 

Because the presiding judge hasn’t issued a ruling yet. The judges are at odds over the matter. I wanted to demonstrate adherence to due process and present this to the federal court in Mexico so they would be aware of the situation. Right now, federal judges are in disagreement over this very issue; they’re going to handle it, but they’re going to drag it out—making it longer and longer and longer.

I’ve been working on this case for three and a half months. I’ve known about it for six months. I’ve been moving as fast as I can, but they keep shutting doors on you. You can’t move forward, there are no ways to get things done, and it keeps happening day after day. 

I repeat, not only in Mr. Guzmán’s case, but in many other cases I’m handling with evidence and proof that the authorities did nothing. I even sent García Harfuch a video last time because he never met with me, and I showed him the evidence and everything I have. 

A video that would supposedly prove what, lawyer? 

What happened to other people in other cases where they kill, plant evidence, frame people, and fabricate crimes? 

Of those 32 people whose names you’re going to reveal to the United States with evidence, who are they? What examples could you give me? 

I can’t give names because it’s a very delicate matter, but I will tell you something. Of the people we already know, one of them has a license, we already know who he is. He has much more information that can bolster all of this, and I think more than 35, maybe 32, just in case something happens to him, or they make him sick, or he disappears, because he has a lot of key information. 

Are you talking about Rocha Moya?

Excuse me?

Are you taking about Rocha Moya?

I didn’t say that. Yes, but I didn’t say that. Okay, correct. Now they’re also accusing Andrés Manuel’s sons. They have nothing to do with it. No, no, don’t distract from this. Look for his uncle or another relative—I won’t mention names. 

Look for another relative. You’re on the right track, but it’s not the sons. I mean, these guys have only just started stealing—I mean, sorry, working. I apologize for what I said—these guys are new businessmen. Look further up and to the sides. You’ll find a lot of things there. I have that information, and it’s ready to be handed over. 

Relatives of Andrés Manuel López Obrador?

I  didn’t say, I didn’t say, I want to say that because you know that yesterday at 6:00 in the morning, my brother received some very serious threats. I’m always traveling throughout Mexico and parts of the United States. He tells me, “Hey, you know what, brother? I have to move. Move, take care, because this happened.” I said, “Brother, I’m sorry, move, protect your family. Someone has to do this.”

This isn’t about spectacle; it isn’t about putting on a show. It is about all the Mexican men and women whose rights are being violated. So many unfortunate families are in prison. Mr. Guzmán’s case is one of them. He may well have committed crimes…

Well, he isn’t innocent, is he? 

No, no, no. I’m not saying he’s innocent. I’m not defending the crimes; let him pay for them, but not through torture. 

So, Counselor, the document is being submitted to the United States today or in the coming days? And I assume you’re expecting a response. 

Today, I am sending information electronically directly to the United States so they have a fuller picture. Look, the United States knows everything, you know? They know everything, but since I saw the list only had 10 names, I told him, “No, that fell short; perhaps they don’t want to reveal the rest, but as I’ve been uncovering more details, I’ve been fleshing out the document. I’m going to send it today—just in case something happens.

But it won’t be made public, Counselor?

I can’t make it public because it’s an ongoing investigation.” 

You acknowledge the 10 individuals named by the U.S. government—the names that are already public? 

Yes, exactly. Well, many of us already knew that, right? 

Please hold on a moment; I’ll come back to finish this after the break—since it’s automated, I’ll take another three minutes, please. 

Thank you. Thanks to attorney Gerardo de Rincón—Joaquín “El Chapo” Guzmán’s lawyer—for staying with us. 

So, Counselor, you’re telling me you have a list of 32 people linked to organized crime and drug trafficking—a list involving Joaquín Guzmán Loera—that you intend to send to the United States. You won’t make it public, but you do acknowledge the 10 individuals named by the U.S.—specifically by the New York court—in connection with the Sinaloa Cartel, including the governor currently on leave, Rubén Rocha Moya. 

Yes. Okay. Yes, I never mentioned the name myself, but that is correct. Now, regarding these associated individuals: I should point out that some were part of previous administrations and later served in Mr. Andrés’s administration. There are others here as well. 

Not all of them remain in office, but they still wield influence—that is common knowledge. Just look at what happened with the fuel theft issue—not to mention other matters, like the Navy officer who was killed… or rather, the one found dead—supposedly a suicide. 

I’d rather not go into it, as there’s a lot of backstory there. It’s not true. It’s not true. That’s a lie. It’s a circus. I say this with great respect to all women, and to the Madam President: How can you allow this to happen? How can you allow so many people to suffer like this? Look at the missing persons cases… with great… …with respect and deep sorrow for the mothers who are suffering. We must pay attention. 

But look, Counselor, there are many people missing due to the Sinaloa Cartel. 

Well, you know that for a fact, right? 

Reports are filed. Of course. 

Are you aware that governments also make people disappear?

By the Sinaloa Cartel, the Jalisco Cartel, and so on. 

Let me tell you something—and I say this with great respect. I was kidnapped some time ago; I’ve been shot at, and it wasn’t the cartels—it was people from the government. They abducted my coordinator, they shot at me; I bear the scars from seeking justice. And it wasn’t the “bad guys,” it wasn’t kidnappers; it was police, government officials, municipal and state personnel. 

Complaints were filed, yet nothing came of it. It’s very easy for everyone to place blame on this group or that group. I don’t want to name any specific group, nor am I defending any, but I know there is disorganization. I know there are low-level individuals posing as cartel members, or hiring people brought in from other states—or other countries—to commit crimes; sometimes it’s the government itself doing this. 

Well, Counselor, we look forward to you submitting this document, seeing a response from the United States, and—when the time comes that it can be made public—having you share it with us. Thank you.

Source: Azucena Uresti